{"id":"https://openalex.org/W7162308311","doi":"https://doi.org/10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857","title":"Strong Teacher Not Needed? On Distillation in LLM Pretraining","display_name":"Strong Teacher Not Needed? On Distillation in LLM Pretraining","publication_year":2026,"publication_date":"2026-05-22","ids":{"openalex":"https://openalex.org/W7162308311","doi":"https://doi.org/10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857"},"language":null,"primary_location":{"id":"doi:10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857","is_oa":true,"landing_page_url":"https://doi.org/10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857","pdf_url":null,"source":{"id":"https://openalex.org/S4306400194","display_name":"arXiv (Cornell University)","issn_l":"2331-8422","issn":["2331-8422"],"is_oa":true,"is_in_doaj":false,"is_core":false,"host_organization":"https://openalex.org/I205783295","host_organization_name":"Cornell University","host_organization_lineage":["https://openalex.org/I205783295"],"host_organization_lineage_names":[],"type":"repository"},"license":"cc-by","license_id":"https://openalex.org/licenses/cc-by","version":null,"is_accepted":false,"is_published":false,"raw_source_name":null,"raw_type":"Preprint"},"type":"preprint","indexed_in":["datacite"],"open_access":{"is_oa":true,"oa_status":"green","oa_url":"https://doi.org/10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857","any_repository_has_fulltext":true},"authorships":[{"author_position":"first","author":{"id":"https://openalex.org/A5099380648","display_name":"Taiming Lu","orcid":null},"institutions":[],"countries":[],"is_corresponding":false,"raw_author_name":"Lu, Taiming","raw_affiliation_strings":[],"raw_orcid":null,"affiliations":[]},{"author_position":"last","author":{"id":"https://openalex.org/A5136964809","display_name":"Zhuang Liu","orcid":null},"institutions":[],"countries":[],"is_corresponding":false,"raw_author_name":"Liu, Zhuang","raw_affiliation_strings":[],"raw_orcid":null,"affiliations":[]}],"institutions":[],"countries_distinct_count":0,"institutions_distinct_count":0,"corresponding_author_ids":[],"corresponding_institution_ids":[],"apc_list":null,"apc_paid":null,"fwci":null,"has_fulltext":false,"cited_by_count":0,"citation_normalized_percentile":null,"cited_by_percentile_year":null,"biblio":{"volume":null,"issue":null,"first_page":null,"last_page":null},"is_retracted":false,"is_paratext":false,"is_xpac":false,"primary_topic":{"id":"https://openalex.org/T10028","display_name":"Topic Modeling","score":0.44369998574256897,"subfield":{"id":"https://openalex.org/subfields/1702","display_name":"Artificial Intelligence"},"field":{"id":"https://openalex.org/fields/17","display_name":"Computer Science"},"domain":{"id":"https://openalex.org/domains/3","display_name":"Physical Sciences"}},"topics":[{"id":"https://openalex.org/T10028","display_name":"Topic Modeling","score":0.44369998574256897,"subfield":{"id":"https://openalex.org/subfields/1702","display_name":"Artificial Intelligence"},"field":{"id":"https://openalex.org/fields/17","display_name":"Computer Science"},"domain":{"id":"https://openalex.org/domains/3","display_name":"Physical Sciences"}},{"id":"https://openalex.org/T10181","display_name":"Natural Language Processing Techniques","score":0.08169999718666077,"subfield":{"id":"https://openalex.org/subfields/1702","display_name":"Artificial Intelligence"},"field":{"id":"https://openalex.org/fields/17","display_name":"Computer Science"},"domain":{"id":"https://openalex.org/domains/3","display_name":"Physical Sciences"}},{"id":"https://openalex.org/T13629","display_name":"Text Readability and Simplification","score":0.05079999938607216,"subfield":{"id":"https://openalex.org/subfields/1702","display_name":"Artificial Intelligence"},"field":{"id":"https://openalex.org/fields/17","display_name":"Computer Science"},"domain":{"id":"https://openalex.org/domains/3","display_name":"Physical Sciences"}}],"keywords":[{"id":"https://openalex.org/keywords/distillation","display_name":"Distillation","score":0.9143999814987183},{"id":"https://openalex.org/keywords/generalization","display_name":"Generalization","score":0.6244000196456909},{"id":"https://openalex.org/keywords/continuous-distillation","display_name":"Continuous distillation","score":0.5304999947547913},{"id":"https://openalex.org/keywords/mixing","display_name":"Mixing (physics)","score":0.474700003862381},{"id":"https://openalex.org/keywords/yield","display_name":"Yield (engineering)","score":0.4115000069141388},{"id":"https://openalex.org/keywords/training","display_name":"Training (meteorology)","score":0.3560999929904938}],"concepts":[{"id":"https://openalex.org/C204030448","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q101017","display_name":"Distillation","level":2,"score":0.9143999814987183},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C177148314","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q170084","display_name":"Generalization","level":2,"score":0.6244000196456909},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C66833556","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1863368","display_name":"Continuous distillation","level":4,"score":0.5304999947547913},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C138777275","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6884054","display_name":"Mixing (physics)","level":2,"score":0.474700003862381},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C134121241","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q899301","display_name":"Yield (engineering)","level":2,"score":0.4115000069141388},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C41008148","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21198","display_name":"Computer science","level":0,"score":0.3905999958515167},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C2777211547","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q17141490","display_name":"Training (meteorology)","level":2,"score":0.3560999929904938},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C21880701","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2144042","display_name":"Process engineering","level":1,"score":0.3506999909877777},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C98045186","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q205663","display_name":"Process (computing)","level":2,"score":0.3416000008583069},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C33923547","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q395","display_name":"Mathematics","level":0,"score":0.2996000051498413},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C15744967","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9418","display_name":"Psychology","level":0,"score":0.28439998626708984},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C154030694","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1436074","display_name":"Fractionating column","level":3,"score":0.2791999876499176},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C119857082","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2539","display_name":"Machine learning","level":1,"score":0.26930001378059387},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C154945302","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q11660","display_name":"Artificial intelligence","level":1,"score":0.25859999656677246},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C204838308","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q840492","display_name":"Fractional distillation","level":3,"score":0.25220000743865967},{"id":"https://openalex.org/C127413603","wikidata":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q11023","display_name":"Engineering","level":0,"score":0.25119999051094055}],"mesh":[],"locations_count":1,"locations":[{"id":"doi:10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857","is_oa":true,"landing_page_url":"https://doi.org/10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857","pdf_url":null,"source":{"id":"https://openalex.org/S4306400194","display_name":"arXiv (Cornell University)","issn_l":"2331-8422","issn":["2331-8422"],"is_oa":true,"is_in_doaj":false,"is_core":false,"host_organization":"https://openalex.org/I205783295","host_organization_name":"Cornell University","host_organization_lineage":["https://openalex.org/I205783295"],"host_organization_lineage_names":[],"type":"repository"},"license":"cc-by","license_id":"https://openalex.org/licenses/cc-by","version":null,"is_accepted":false,"is_published":null,"raw_source_name":null,"raw_type":"Preprint"}],"best_oa_location":{"id":"doi:10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857","is_oa":true,"landing_page_url":"https://doi.org/10.48550/arxiv.2605.23857","pdf_url":null,"source":{"id":"https://openalex.org/S4306400194","display_name":"arXiv (Cornell University)","issn_l":"2331-8422","issn":["2331-8422"],"is_oa":true,"is_in_doaj":false,"is_core":false,"host_organization":"https://openalex.org/I205783295","host_organization_name":"Cornell University","host_organization_lineage":["https://openalex.org/I205783295"],"host_organization_lineage_names":[],"type":"repository"},"license":"cc-by","license_id":"https://openalex.org/licenses/cc-by","version":null,"is_accepted":false,"is_published":false,"raw_source_name":null,"raw_type":"Preprint"},"sustainable_development_goals":[{"id":"https://metadata.un.org/sdg/4","score":0.7272454500198364,"display_name":"Quality Education"}],"awards":[],"funders":[],"has_content":{"pdf":false,"grobid_xml":false},"content_urls":null,"referenced_works_count":0,"referenced_works":[],"related_works":[],"abstract_inverted_index":{"Knowledge":[0],"distillation":[1,21,67,105,111,131],"generally":[2],"assumes":[3],"a":[4,81,135],"strong-to-weak":[5],"relationship":[6],"where":[7],"stronger":[8,82],"teachers":[9,73],"yield":[10],"better":[11],"students.":[12,76],"In":[13],"this":[14,18],"work,":[15],"we":[16,35],"examine":[17],"assumption":[19],"about":[20],"in":[22],"large":[23],"language":[24,63],"model":[25],"pretraining.":[26],"By":[27],"varying":[28],"architecture":[29],"sizes":[30],"and":[31,39,43,65,71,115],"training":[32,97],"token":[33],"budgets,":[34],"create":[36],"strong-to-weak,":[37],"same-level,":[38],"weak-to-strong":[40],"teacher-student":[41],"relationships,":[42],"study":[44],"distillation's":[45],"effectiveness":[46],"under":[47],"each.":[48],"We":[49,107],"find":[50],"that":[51,110,130],"the":[52,62,78,89,104,127],"teacher":[53,83,90],"need":[54],"not":[55,85],"be":[56],"strong:":[57],"with":[58],"proper":[59],"mixing":[60],"of":[61],"modeling":[64],"knowledge":[66],"losses,":[68],"even":[69,102],"small":[70],"undertrained":[72],"improve":[74],"larger":[75],"At":[77],"same":[79],"time,":[80],"is":[84],"always":[86,133],"better:":[87],"pushing":[88],"further,":[91],"through":[92],"more":[93,96,118],"parameters":[94],"or":[95,101],"tokens,":[98],"can":[99],"saturate":[100],"reverse":[103],"gains.":[106],"further":[108],"observe":[109],"improves":[112],"generalization":[113],"(out-of-distribution":[114],"downstream":[116],"performance)":[117],"readily":[119],"than":[120],"in-domain":[121],"fitting.":[122],"Together,":[123],"these":[124],"results":[125],"challenge":[126],"common":[128],"belief":[129],"pretraining":[132],"requires":[134],"strong":[136],"teacher.":[137]},"counts_by_year":[],"updated_date":"2026-07-28T07:46:37.118299","created_date":"2026-05-26T00:00:00"}